The other day, I recieved a rather opinionated e-mail from one of the advertisers on Immogo. Without bothering to hide the names and email adresses, he send this mail to a big list of real estate agencies in different countries. All agencies he had commissioned to sell his house. He was - to say the least - disappointed with the results and felt no qualms about telling it. I read his mail, took the house off the site and left it at that. But one of the agencies, VEFUK (am I the only one snickering about this name?), couldn't resist answering back, sending the answer - dripping of sarcasm - not only to Mr. Ursprung, but also to all other adresses. After which Ursprung promptly replied, again sending copies to everybody else. Since they obviously are not secretive about their opinions of eachother, I feel free to publish the heated exchange below. Enjoy!


From: Rudolf Ursprung
To: [- edit – big list of immo agencies plus IMMOGO]
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 6:25 PM
Subject: Notice of sale

Good evening, resp. good morning!

This is to inform you that we have succesfully sold our property here in [edit] the southwest of France.

We thought it might (or certainly should) interest you to hear something about the experiences made during the sales-activities for this property:

First of all, we must say that without any doubt, France is definitely not the country to sell a property via an agency, regardless whether this one is located in France or abroad.

While in Germany or Switzerland and partly also in Spain (in all the three countries we bought and sold several houses over the last 40 years), it is still a very usual and succesful way to sell or buy a house via  a real estate agency, things obviously look dramatically (!!) different here in France.

At the beginning, we appointed just a few selected agents here around Périgueux as well as in the UK. Without any (!!) result. Not a single demand, not a single visitor, although the house offers a simply perfect location and although the price/quality relation was extremely attractive.
In almost 2 years, we had just 2 visitors coming  via an agency.....incredible, indeed.

Later, we added more and more agents, locally and all over France, plus a really (!) big number of agents in the UK, but also in Germany, Holland and Switzerland. Same desaster: Not a single reaction.

We lowered the price down to 695'000€ (= 100'000 less), with the same desasterous result....not a single demand or customer....with the 2 exceptions mentionned.

This showed clearly: Agents are the wrong way when it comes to sell a house in France.

Proof:

As soon as we started to publish impressive, expensive advertisments in a few leading magazines like Demeures de charme and others including Le Figaro. the results were absolutely contrary = excellent. We had one demand after the other, a lot of visitors (of which many, many would have loved to buy the house but simply had no money....as usual) and finally we had 3 couples who wanted to buy the property immediately, all of them came via one of the ads we had published .

As a result, we had to spend 10'000€ for advertisments but that of course was even much less then a 6% commission for an agency.......this beeing possibly one of the main reasons why the French property market seems to work 98% directly between owners and buyers..........something that can also be clearly seen when looking a the almost 10 big newspapers/magazines such as "pap", etc. beeing sold in every newspaper stand.

These experiences of our house-sale are so extremely clear that they simply must be typical for a whole market, trend and development in your business.

We hope that we could help you with this report to better understand what is happening and going on right now on this market here and remain

with kindest regards

R. Ursprung

 
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From: VEF Dordogne
To: 'Rudolf Ursprung' ; Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 2:40 PM
Subject: RE: Notice of sale

Dear Mr URSPRUNG

Thank goodness for your important advice!  I am not really sure how we have possibly survived for all these years without such mature and wise guidance.  I am also not sure that the 200 or so vendors for whom we have successfully sold properties in recent years would agree with you.......

I have piece of advice for you by return.  In future, you should bear in mind that as an estate agent, I personally found you to be such a pompous and obnoxious person to deal with, that we were simply unable to trust in you as a vendor.  I can also reassure you that I also do not take kindly to vendors who dictate my terms of commission and who amend the terms of my mandate de vente. Therefore, as a result you personally removed, at a stroke, any real commercial incentive for us to propose your property over the many far more suitable and reasonably priced properties on our books, many of which we happily sold for very pleasant vendors during 2007.

If you were a genuinely intelligent man, perhaps this might have given you a large clue as to the minimal interest you received from many agents????

I only hope for your sake that you have actually already banked the cash from your sale. If not, you may well find (as us experienced agents would tell you) that sales have a nasty habit of falling through. I am not sure your most recent outburst will have been well received by all of my estate agent colleagues who I am sure will tell you to go and take a running jump if you ever ask for them to re-market your property.

Mind you, as you are now such an expert in French property I am sure you will have no trouble in arranging your own affairs should the proverbial hit the fan...

Regards


Tony Moules
Dordogne Property Agency

PS:  Which of our unfortunate European neighbours are you going to preside over now you have sold up?

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1. You disqualify yourself more than you can imagine with an E-mail like this
 
2. All other agents I had the pleasure to work with totally agree wth my comments and confirm my impression about the actual market situation in France.....there is absolutely no future for the real estate agent in France. So please keep on sleeping!
 
3. You cannot know that over the past 6 years for a very special reason I have probably seen more properties in the Dordogne than you will see in 20 yers working, I do not see any reason to explain you why.
 
4. Atter having moved in my profession 22 times through 11 countries on 3 continents, after having bought or built and then sold again 18 houses over the past 40 years, I have enough experience about how to buy or sell a house, including the legal and finacnial side of the matter and do certainly not need some wise guys' advises such as one from a nobody-agency like VEF, not having any customers to buy any properties here which is also confirmed from many good friends working in your trae here considerably longer than you do.
 
5. I could not care less about what you think or say, but I am glad to say that I would not like to be in your position and situation in this market here. To wish you good luck would not help, so I close this with s simple mouse click.

Rudolf Ursprung

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There! Take that! If any new letters pop up, I will certainly share them with you.

The French court closed down Immogo. We are appealing to a higher court. Maybe one day the Immogo system can function again. But this may take years. And even if I win, an inactive Immogo will be worthless in two years. What’s more, lawyers are expensive. So it is all hands on deck for saving Immogo. In the mean time I need to make money to finance my defence. That is why I’ve decided to offer the well-appreciated Immogo service for a fixed fee on a new site. Existing Immogo clients can move their ad to the new site for the modest sum of 10 euros. After paying these 10 euros  for the work already done, the old clients have no other obligation to Immogo. Even if they sell through the new site, they do not have to pay anything more.
For new customers the fee will be higher, of course. But the system of the new site will also be innovative. And - I hope - completely legal! 
UPDATE March 24: working hard on the new site, quickly taking shape. Alle existing clients will soon be informed. 

Update April 5: It takes longer than hoped. But in the mean time, ideas about shape and form of new site change. Something's cooking!

It is very annoying, but the only real news is the absense of news. I've been waiting for the official written judgement for almost three months now. But so far there is no fine or invoice. Which bothers me, because the sooner I get the 'signification de jugement', the sooner I can start seriously working on my appeal. But allas, nothing is happening.
So I still don't know what motivated the judge in doubling the amount of probation asked by the general attorny. Giving me 4 months in stead of the 2 asked. Plus the 7500 euro fine. Plus the 2500 euro damages for the FNAIM.
What are her arguments? I can but guess. And every month my loss increases, because every month with Immogo offline is beneficial to the FNAIM.

Bogus, dude!

The euphoria of being found ‘not guilty’ and putting Immogo back on line has used off. Time for a sober look at the situation. As a matter of fact, it is not a pretty sight. The trial – which was aimed at me personally - has left me stressed and deflated. And depleted, because lawyers are very expensive and Immogo as a supplementary source of income was closed down.

Looking back, this whole affair has cost me about 10.000 euros in direct lawyer fees. In addition, I should probably count the loss of turnover. Since 2004, Immogo has made about 28.000 euros (gross turnover), of which 17500 in the last year. It was just really warming up, growing faster and faster, when they shut me down.

So if I make a conservative estimate, the housing market turning sour and all, I’ve probably lost another 15000 euros between 02/2007 and 02/2008. This adds up to total estimated damages of 25.000 euros. According to my lawyer, this cannot be claimed anywhere.

The strong arm tactics of a big Federation
What it boils down to, is that a big organisation like the FNAIM, who have an enormous budget and lawyers on fixed retainer, can just go around sending the police after anyone they even vaguely suspect is doing something that might slightly infringe upon their famous ‘Loi Hoguet’. If the public prosecutor sees a case and decides to persecute someone in court, the FNAIM steps forward as ‘public party’ (partie civile) in order to claim damages.

If the attacked person or company is found ‘not guilty’, at least they have slowed him down and made him spend a lot of money on lawyer fees. The FNAIM does not have to pay him any damages. However, if the attacked person is found ‘guilty’ he does have to pay the FNAIM’s lawyer fees, sometime with addition to a fee for damages.

I myself was originally sentenced to pay the FNAIM 1,000 euros lawyer fees plus 1,500 euros in ‘damages’. For what, I don’t know, but I guess they use it for funding other lawsuits.

When I was later found ‘not guilty’ after all, no damages were rewarded to me. I was left empty-handed. I guess I should count myself lucky for being able to reopen Immogo. Unfortunately without any money left for advertising.

Cassation... it’s not over yet!
So far, so bad. But it might get even badder! The FNAIM have asked the court to consider a ‘cassation’. This means a new court is asked to ‘break’ the appeal ruling and send the case back to appeal court. The appeal case will have to be done all over again. So far, only the FNAIM has asked for this. If the public prosecutor does not join them, I will at least never be able to be punished or fined. But I do have to hire a new lawyer again. One of the f=sixty select lawyers allowed to handle ‘cassation’ affairs. My own attorney told me this will set me back another 2500 to 3500 euros.

Then... in the unhappy event the appeal has to be done all over, I’ll have to again pay my defence. I see another 5-10.000 euros in costs coming towards me. Again without possibility to claim damages.

There is a strong possibility that in the end of all this, after 5 years of going in and out of court, I find myself entirely innocent. But broke. Now where’s the justice in that?

Immogo has been online for a couple of months now and we're doing great! At the moment, about one home a day is added by its owner. Unfortunately there are not many actual sales, but well, this is probably just a matter of biting the bullet for a while. I should count myself lucky. I may not make any money, but there are also people with double mortgages, unable to sell the house they have already left.

Bargains galore
It's hard to say wether the market is pulling itself together. It should, because I see a lot of houses coming in with real bargain prices. A sizeable farm in a wonderful location in South-Burgundy for less than 150.000. A big fixer upper that is already inhabitable and ideal for dog breeding or pension... only 85.000! That is not expensive at all. If you like to keep abreast of what's coming in... the lates homes added are here.

Coming soon: test with seller coach
At the moment I'm quite busy preparing a new partnership with a company that helps owners sell more quickly. They assist in almost all the steps of the selling process. Starting with a professional estimate, a good description, tips about home staging, professional pictures and an international advertising campaign on all major sitesm including Immogo. After a buyer was found, they also organise the entire selling process, paper work etc. All this for a fixed price way below what the agencies ask.
We'll soon start a test with eight houses in the South-East of France, at no costs for the owners. The results of the test will be published here, on the Immogo blog.

Follow Immogo on Twitter!
Another new devellopment is that Immogo has a Twitter Account: http://twitter.com/immogo. If you register with Twitter you can 'follow' Immogo to be kept in the loop for all new houses added.